now i am going to do a rear thing here and i am going to stick up for the wts.
i realise that the wts hasn't got the best of track record, and sure they have made mistakes.
but if i was to go to another church wouldn't they still have the same issues.
LV101 Your last post is very correct. People for the most part want to Live TRUTH and as long as they think they have it and live it, not much will change. IT IS THE COMFORT ZONE CYNDROME!!!!
Affectionately: Brother of the Hawk ( I will surrender my mind no more, forever )
hi all.. i'm a newbie from paris, france.
so please forgive my english grammar, it might be some times...improper.
27, got baptised at 16 (for a girl...i never had).
Welcome. glad to have you here with us.
now i am going to do a rear thing here and i am going to stick up for the wts.
i realise that the wts hasn't got the best of track record, and sure they have made mistakes.
but if i was to go to another church wouldn't they still have the same issues.
LV101: On the other hand the scripture Tammy stated about not forsaking the gathering (or gathering others to Christ as she indicated) still leaves me questioning. I think the community, support, friendship, Bible studies, etc., some religious insitutions offer is good. I know I personally didn't feel any of this at the w/tower.
A little background info about Heb 10:24. It was the custom of those people at that time to gather for meals and then have discussions regarding the letters they had received from the Apostles, It became a custom to skip these events. There is absolutely no scripitual "Christian" outline for former "church" meetings. At this time in history the early Christians met in homes, there are a number scripitural references to this. I see you have had 1450 post, I am sure you have not heard this before. Going back to a Church, structured setting doing nothing more than keep one captive. You will never feel or find Christian love with the JWs. Where there is no TRUTH, there is no LOVE. So how can this type of setting really be good???? If there is no love? It seems to me that this is a contradiction in human nature and what Christ taught.
If you did some research into this scripture 1 Cor 11:27 you will notice these christians who gathered to celebrate the Lords evening meal gathered in a private home. The WTBTS uses this scripture to perpetrate the idea if you partake unworthly, than this is committing the unforgiveable sin. NOT TRUE!!!!!. What was happening here is this, these Christians were abusing this event, they skipped eating on this particular day and had their "personal" meal of the day at someone else's expence. Just look at vs 33-34. So the CUSTOM was to gather in small groups share a meal and then fellowship. NOT as we see it in todays eccelestical settings.
Affectionately: Brother of the Hawk ( I will surrender my mind no, more forever)
i believe that this site, jwn, serves many purposes.
.
some are here almost, out of need.. others are here because they want to know the latest in watchtower world.. still others come here for the entertainment.. why do you frequent this place?
I hope to be appointed an Elder here, couldnt do it in the Borg!!! BTW Hello mouthy. Did you happen to read my first poem I wrote in over 30 years?
Affectionately: Brother of the Hawk ( I will surrender my mind no more, forever)
now i am going to do a rear thing here and i am going to stick up for the wts.
i realise that the wts hasn't got the best of track record, and sure they have made mistakes.
but if i was to go to another church wouldn't they still have the same issues.
Hey Joe, I see you have not been posting for very long, Welcome!! A lot of good thoughts here. I do not know you, dont know how much studying you have done how long you have been associated with Jehovahs witnesses. So all I can do is share what helped me and still continues to help. First it seems this scripture gets overlooked quite often.
John 4: 20 Our forefathers worshiped in this mountain; but YOU people say that in Jerusalem is the place where persons ought to worship.” 21 Jesus said to her: “Believe me, woman, The hour is coming when neither in this mountain nor in Jerusalem will YOU people worship the Father. 22 YOU worship what YOU do not know; we worship what we know, because salvation originates with the Jews. 23 Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshipers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for, indeed, the Father is looking for suchlike ones to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit, and those worshiping him must worship with spirit and truth.”
Please, Please notice carefully what Jesus told her, Not in this mountain or in that mountain. He was referring to a established means of worship. It was going to be done away with. As humans we find it a matter of pride to be woshiping at a big huge temple, and established "Mountain" . Heb 13: 13 NLB says"So let us go out to Him outside the camp and bare the disgrace he bore." Also note how Abraham was to also leave the established city and take up dwelling in tents. outside of the established means of comfort and security, It takes much faith and reliance on God and Christ to do this. It can be illustrated like this. If a ship is anchored at a dock, what purpose does the ship serve? NONE!! in order for the ship to be of any value it must be out to sea, and what is out at sea? danger. But with a good and experienced captain the ship can fulfill its purpose. You must be your own Captain. Study and studying will give you the skills necessary to be a succesful Christian. In my 40 plus years as a JW I have come to learn that not many JWs truly do any studying, or pondering on what they are learning from the bible. I did and that is why I am here where I am. The Jehovahs witnesses can no longer fulfill my spiritual needs, neither can they fill the spiritual needs of my family. It takes alot of trust and faith in God to worship outside of an established church. May God and Christ kindly give you what you are searching for. Peace my Brother
Affectionately: Brother of the Hawk ( I will surrender my mind no more, forever )
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ah is coming, who is called Christ.
meletivivlon.com - interesting and enlightening theory on jesus and the signs.. wars, earthquakes, food shortages.. what if jesus meant the very opposite ?
jesus said - look out that nobody misleads you.
( jesus warning us as a safegaurd for us not to be mislead about exactly when the time would come ) .
Vanderhoven7 I reread your above points more closely and slowly, I do believe you are correct in saying Jesus was pointiog to 2 judgments. I never thought to seperate these before. Thank you!!! Rev 16:15 Jesus says he is coming as a thief. When a thief strikes, there is NO warning, to known timing, the householder is preoccupied with life, and vulnerable. Caught completely off guard!!!! That is what Jesus meant coming as a thief. As you stated one judgment was escapeable, and the other is not. So my earlier question still stands, about any scripture showing a dual application. It is not, it is two seperate judgments. Thanks again.
Just a side thought regarding the PAROUSIA. I do understand the meaning,and how it is connected to the "end", my thought is this, since Christ during the 1000 year reign, is going to bring mankind to perfection, could it not also coinside with HIS presence? Since it Jesus that brings the kingdom to its completeness and hands it over to God?
Affectionately: Brother of the Hawk (I will surrender my mind no more, forever)
meletivivlon.com - interesting and enlightening theory on jesus and the signs.. wars, earthquakes, food shortages.. what if jesus meant the very opposite ?
jesus said - look out that nobody misleads you.
( jesus warning us as a safegaurd for us not to be mislead about exactly when the time would come ) .
Wow, this thread has realy developed. I had this conversation with my mom years ago when I was very active as a JW, but did question some things. One was on the point at Matt 24:20 "Keep praying that your flight may not occur in wintertime nor on the sabbath day."
My mom you see, was concerned the "Great Tribulation" was going to happen in wintertime, and fleeing to the mountains was going to be difficult.
My point is this, Jesus words could have only applied back then, If Jesus was encouraging us ( modern day man ) to pray in this way, than it would be impossible for God to answer it, and it would be a big disssapointment, for you see while it is wintertime in Australia it is summer in America, and visa versa. So, this prayer would be impossible for God to answer, Why would Christ do that to us, knowing it was not going to happen that way. so this prophecy only has application to 70 c.e. ( just use a little common sense and reason it out)
The Entity that calls itself Jehovah Witnesses is a controlling cult that wants its members living in fear. Fred Franz was an expert at such controll.
Affectionately: Brother of the Hawk ( I will surrender my mind no more, forever)
meletivivlon.com - interesting and enlightening theory on jesus and the signs.. wars, earthquakes, food shortages.. what if jesus meant the very opposite ?
jesus said - look out that nobody misleads you.
( jesus warning us as a safegaurd for us not to be mislead about exactly when the time would come ) .
*Lost*- Great topic- Super fantastic with your research, NE & I are proud of you.
Vanderhoven7: You absolutely nailed it! Great job! On 2 or 3 other posts, I have asked the question for ANYBODY to show me in the bible where Jesus said his words would have dual fulfilment [our day] as JW's teach. So far, this question has gone unanswered and you know why. I very much appeciate you taking the time to look up the Greek wording and meanings for 'generation' this is missed many times by people researching. Some words int he Greek language can have 3-4 different meanings, the WTBT$ will take the meaning that best suits their ideology.
Here is some more food for thought. Scholar's claim that Thomas' Gospel was the first one written.
Gospel of Thomas vs 51-52:
(51) His disciples said to him, "When will the repose of the dead come about, and when will the new world come?"
He said to them, "What you look forward to has already come, but you do not recognize it."
(52) His disciples said to him, "Twenty-four prophets spoke in Israel, and all of them spoke in you."
He said to them, "You have omitted the one living in your presence and have spoken (only) of the dead."
Link if anyone wants to read it for themselves: http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/gthlamb.html
Affectionately Brother of the Hawk [ I will surrender my mind no more, forever]
okay, online, many jws use the line that if you have a question about a ford, you wouldn't go to a toyota dealer.
they use this to say "only jehovah's witnesses can answer questions about jws.".
i can swear that there is some version of this statement in a watchtower publication.
stillin: sorry, I guess I should have looked to see how long you have been posting. My sincere apologies. It is hard hard to "READ" sarcasm. Please be patient, as you can see I am relatively new here and still need to learn who is who, if that is possible. Maybe some day we can sit around a fire and have a few beers.
Affectionately: Brother of the Hawk ( I Will surrender my mind no more, forever)
meletivivlon.com - interesting and enlightening theory on jesus and the signs.. wars, earthquakes, food shortages.. what if jesus meant the very opposite ?
jesus said - look out that nobody misleads you.
( jesus warning us as a safegaurd for us not to be mislead about exactly when the time would come ) .
Yes Lost, symbolically Earthquakes could also have application to Governments. My dad who was an Elder, also said many times these could also be concidered eathquakes. He is dead now, boy do I have much to tell him.
affectionately: Brother of the Hawk ( I will surrender my mind no more, forever )
